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Andrew McGregor is imagining change in the education space. After taking a trip to India, it was through seeing poverty alleviation framed not as simply buildings and bridges but as care for the individuals in the system. He saw the ways, specifically, education was changing lives and career arcs. Thus, a career pivot ensued and McGregor pursued teaching. Today, he works at Da Vinci Science teaching both Precalculus and Civil Engineering + Architecture. In this episode of the CFWLA Podcast, McGregor chronicles his roundabout career journey, speaks to the impact educators can have through their work, and shares about ways he’s seeking to serve his fellow educators and students.
Andrew McGregor teaches both Precalculus and Civil Engineering + Architecture at Da Vinci Science in Los Angeles. He challenges students to create processes for solving, make connections between various representations, and understand how the mathematics is operating at a conceptual level. His hope for all his students is that they would learn to think well. In addition to mathematics he enjoys working with his hands (Civil Engineering) as well as tossing the frisbee during his seminar. Living only a couple blocks from campus, you might often see Mr. McGregor biking back home to his wonderful wife Diana, his two children, Daniel and Alina, and his Labrador Teddy.
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QUOTABLE
On Navigating Student Development as a Teacher: (10:33-11:16)
“Right now a traditional notion of public education is standard-based and rat-race to get your kids in school at an earlier age to get into these schools and have this pathway. It’s actually a really narrow vision of what education is: a road to a certain place or dumping a bunch of content into a student’s head and having them regurgitate it. It’s not what do I want them know but who do I want them to be.
On Finding Identity in Changing Lives as an Educator: (23:10-23:28)
“There’s a human danger in just finding too much value in being a teacher and ‘making a difference,’ and that should not drive what we’re doing.”
On Loving Your Neighbor at Work: (29:10-29:43)
“It’s more important to be kind sometimes than to be right. Especially on a staff with a lot of people with strong convictions, myself included, and learning to compromise on some things for the benefit of the team to show I care about the person more than I care about the decision.”
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcription for the Faith + Work LA Podcast is done by AI software, which will occasionally include typos and other misspellings.
Andrew McGregor
But, you know, I think a traditional notion right now of public education is like standards-based and there's this rat race to get your kids into school at an earlier age so they can get into like these schools and have this pathway. And it's actually a very narrow vision of just what education is, you know, a road to a certain place or dumping a bunch of content inside a student's head and having them you know, regurgitated versus what's the arc of, you know, for my kids, it's not what do I want them to know when they're 18 or 19? It's, who do I want that individual to be?
Gage Arnold
Hello, and welcome to the Faith and Work LA Podcast. A narrative effort from the Center of Faith and Work Los Angeles that lifts up stories of everyday Christians impacting Los Angeles through their daily work. My name is Gage Arnold, and I'll be your host. In this episode, we hear from Andrew McGregor. Andrew teaches both precalculus and civil engineering and architecture at Da Vinci Science. And his hope for all students is that they would learn how to be successful when they're challenged. In addition to mathematics, he enjoys working with his hands as well as tossing the Frisbee during his seminar. Andrew is imagining a change in the education space. See it was through a trip to India and seeing poverty alleviation framed as care for the individuals in the system that sparked a newfound love for education. Specifically, he saw the ways that education was changing lives and career arcs. And so thus a career pivot ensued and Andrew pursued teaching. And I'm positive that Andrew’s story whether you are an educator or not, will resonate with you. In this episode of the faith and work Li podcast, Andrew, Chronicles, his roundabout career journey speaks to the impact educators can have through their work and shares about ways he's seeking to serve his fellow educators and students. And I really enjoyed this conversation with Andrew. And I think there's lots of goodness to glean from his insights on being an educator. So we're honored to have Andrew joining us and we hope you enjoy the conversation. All right. It's a joy and a privilege to have Andrew McGregor on The CFWLA podcast today, Andrew, welcome. We're glad to have you. Thanks for having me. Of course, of course. And so we were just talking just a little bit ago before we hopped on here about some of your work at Da Vinci. And I think it could be helpful just for you to give maybe a quick overview before we jump into your conversation about your work. And what you do is to give us just a short little professional snippet of what you do now, how you got there. So could you take us through that and then we can use that maybe as a springboard to go forward?
Andrew McGregor
Yeah, so this is my 13th year, teaching public high school in Los Angeles, specifically the Hawthorne area. And I didn't always know I wanted to be a teacher. I actually graduated from undergrad and was planning on doing Urban Planning and community development work. But then me and my buddies when we graduated, decided to go on a trip to India for some odd reason. The summer after we graduated, and we were all interested in what India was doing to tackle the the problem of poverty and that quickly developing society. So he kind of networked with different organizations over there from hospitals to schools, to nonprofits and churches and I was really compelled by the education work that was being done over there by some of the nonprofit's in terms of pulling people in India literally out of poverty by teaching them how to read and write. Long story short, I shifted my lens and thinking about development, not as building And bridges and built space but more in terms of development at the individual and kind of human development. And I changed my mind. I said I'm not gonna do urban planning, I'm interested in going in education. So when I came back, I applied to a grad program that ended up teaching high school math. I was at a big public high school. For four years, it's about 3000 students. And then in year five, I moved over to a charter, public charter about a mile away with 500 students, and that's where I am now I teach math and precalculus. And then I also teach a civil engineering and architecture course, and a frisbee seminar.
Gage Arnold
I do Ultimate Frisbee. Yes. That's awesome, Andrew. Why, Matt? I think that was one of the first questions that came to mind is you You've sort of gone this taking this pivot career-wise. What specifically about math stuck out? Was that a conscious decision? Did you intentionally do that? Or did you sort of just land there? Just because that was where the draw sent you?
Andrew McGregor
That's actually a great question. And I, I, my students was asking me about that yesterday, because I'm not a math major. I actually went to a liberal arts undergrad, and so your history and sociology. But I had taken some math classes. And then when I applied for my Master's in Ed, it's really hard to get a history teaching gig because it's usually like old white guys that are like wrestling coaches that never retired. But they always are math teachers. So I ended up actually getting my credential and both history and mathematics. But when it came to having an opening in the district, there was opening Course math. So I went that way. And I've always been intrigued by, I've always enjoyed math and also struggled with math as a student, but I like them I was always drawn to the type of thinking it taught. So it's, and I, you know, you're 13 even. And there's still not a history opening, which is fine, because I really enjoy teaching. And the architecture class has been a really fun way to apply it. Combine that with other subjects, like art and design, some Mm-hmm.
Gage Arnold
It sounds like you are a lifelong learner. Would that be a fair characterization? I mean, you have sort of, I mean, I would say most folks tend to maximize comfort and minimize the struggle. And it sounds like you leaned into the struggle to some degree with saying, this was not necessarily my sweet spot, and yet, I love that it refines me a little Little bit. And that's why.
Andrew McGregor
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. I like it's not like I'm a masochist, and going out there looking for punishment, you know, like, oh, I just want to like embrace the struggle, but the idea of doing new things that are different. It's, it's been a really healthy thing, especially as a teacher because there's a lot of schools that kind of remain status quo and teachers that every year, it's the same thing. And I've been guilty of doing that too. But in your work, you want to feel like you're growing and developing. So yeah, I'd like to think about me is that in the classroom, and hopefully, outside I love plants. I'm a plant nerd. And so when I come home, you know, it's like, I say hi to my plants, usually before I say hi to my kids, and my wife has to remind me to, like, greet the family. But yeah, and I think that that was not something I had when I was young. I think I've learned how to enjoy things and ask questions more actually later in life, really in college. And that's because of some of the professors I had in undergrad. I am curious, you mentioned when you were younger? One of the things it seems like faith has shaped you. Your faith has shaped you in a pretty deep way. What does your faith journey look like? And I guess what does it look like for you to follow Jesus doesn't typically be your sort of testimony per se, but just what has the role of faith and Christianity looked like especially as you were growing up and making sense of the world? Yeah, that's, that's an interesting question because I think there was a big shift in the way I integrated faith and the way I saw things when I actually left, left home and went off to college. When I was young, I grew up in an evangelical home where Christianity was kind of like following a moral code. So do this or don't do this, and that's what makes you a good Christian. And I was a part pretty docile kid. Meanwhile, my brother was out questioning everything. And, and in some ways, I think he was asking the right questions. And it wasn't until I actually got to college where I started asking some of those same questions. And I was able to do an environment that was kind of a safe space. But I was really I have professors that are able to help me approach faith in a way that it would change not only like the choices I make, but the way I see the world and the way I interact with it and the way I view relationships and the way I view work and the blurred There became a bigger blur between like, the sacred and the secular. It wasn't just like a line in the sand and it and allowed me to, I think, ask better questions. And it also challenged me a lot. So now, like, as an educator, you know, 15 years out of college. I hope faith is something that defines the way I see the world and the way I like to walk in it. It's not just relegated to something that happens on Sunday, or something that's just always allowing me to make decisions based on some sort of moral code or political agenda like transcends, that should transform the way I view the world. I'm still getting there. Right. But for me, I think there was a big shift when I left home and it was in my like, the early 20s and friendship and mentorship I think has had a lot to do with that.
Gage Arnold
Yeah, I think we're all. We're all still getting there. So you're certainly in good company with that. And I'm really intrigued, sort of in the way that you describe, like shifting a worldview in some ways rather than a list of rules to follow. It's almost like it sort of viewing Christianity is transforming your character on the inside out, rather than giving you a Yeah, a list of rules, or a code to abide by. And so maybe having that in mind, I guess, how did that you mentioned? It's sort of shaping your work specifically. What does that look like for you as an educator to work in a public school to carry this worldview, this conviction, and to work that out? In the ways that you teach you to lead? My sort of educating with integrity?
Andrew McGregor
Yeah, that's a great question. I think it is, is the question we should all be asking ourselves wherever we're working on is it mean to be to follow Jesus in this space, and in the space of public education, just like healthcare or Hollywood or CAC, like, those are all spaces that are in need of redemption. And trying to figure out how to redeem those spaces, I think is the challenge. But, you know, I think the traditional notion right now of public education is like, standards-based and there's this rat race to get your kids in this school at an earlier age so they can get into like these schools and have this pathway. And it's actually a very narrow vision of, of just what education is, you know, a road to a certain place or dumping a bunch of content inside a student's head and having them you know, regurgitated versus what's the arc of? You know, for my kids, it's not what do I want them to know when they're 18? Or 19? It's, who do I want that individual to be? So that shift in, and I feel like, you know, following Jesus and being a Christian in public education, begs that question. It's not just I teach math, it's, I'm teaching Math and Math is challenging. How do I allow kids to be successful in the midst of challenges? And how does this develop them as an individual? Because in life, there's going to be challenged. And the question is, do they do our students have strategies to deal with those challenges? So that's maybe what it looks like in the math class, but and how are we, you know, these kids that are coming through the system or whatever it is, and people might say, Okay, well, the goal is to put them in the workplace. The goal is for them to be successful. But really the goal for me is to create thoughtful human beings that are going to work to, you know, partner and redeeming our spaces, right. And you can't say that in a public school using Christian language, but you can talk about it in other ways. And mathematics kind of speak to that, because it does tend to be a subject that's hard. More so than others, other subjects. So even getting a student to kind of change that mindset. It's not I'm good or bad at math. That's what happens when I struggle. What am I choosing to do take initiative, ask questions whenever it is, so it's so much more than just the Pythagorean Theorem, right? Yeah, of course. It's all these interpersonal skills that we want our kids to have to be successful in life. And then also just the way math teaches people how to think logically Use evidence and ask questions. It's just such a rich subject that does a lot of things almost like philosophy does, too, that forces us to ask more important questions and be more thoughtful. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't know, I really answer your question done all over the map.
Gage Arnold
But no, that's great. And I think you're hitting on a lot of it seems to be helping people catch a vision of even just enhancing and contributing to the flourishing of the common good, sort of Christian language sometimes, but it's also a language that most human beings who exist in this age stage and time would say, yes, that's something that they would want to they want to make the world a better place, especially within my millennial generation, that that tends to be a battle cry, sometimes to their detriment, but certainly, I think there's a there's a good biblical drive is whether or not people realize that And that's something that you kind of help other you can help others unlock that just sort of creating flourishing wherever they're at, for the sake of their neighbor. While those may not inherently sound to Christian-y they are Yeah. Which is beautiful.
Andrew McGregor
And I think that word flourishing is such a good word to give students because I think initially, it's like what is happiness? and flourishing is kind of a deeper word, but a lot of students and just our culture says to be successful, you need to pursue this or make money or do that, but flourishing is so much bigger than that. And it begs the question, What are we valuing? So even something I work on Team 11, which is all the junior teachers in our US history major was brilliant at this, he would celebrate kids all the time, and that's kind of leaked into our classes. But one of the We do in the fall as we take on the kids of the Griffith Observatory, and we do a, we hike up to the top, and then we'll give outgrowth awards. The class, so I'll do one person from three cows, and then there'll be another word for US history. But the idea is that we're honoring how that's that student's story, and how they've grown over that semester. So it's not like they had the highest grade in the class, or they woke up one day and understood everything, but it was no the student had a story. And they did things and it developed and grew and we're trying to reframe the way they think about success. Not necessarily the most intelligent kid, it's maybe the kind that's trying not necessarily even hard, but smart. He's like, using resources, working with others. And by doing that, or pushing against kind of what culture is maybe saying, you know, maybe there's a spotlight as much Yeah, though. The good news is the research is starting to affirm a lot of this thing. Successful people in the workplace are, can communicate with others, they ask questions, right? Mm-hmm. They have a growth mindset. So it's good that that research is supporting it, but we don't see it in like, you know, the pop media or pop culture.
Gage Arnold
Yeah, I remember reading. Malcolm Gladwell had a book called Oh, David, and Goliath story. Yeah. David Goliath. Yeah, chronicling the underdog stories. And as I remember the news, as I was reading this, I was pondering this character trait of grit that he outlines. Yeah. And, yeah, it seems like that's something that you all are certainly emphasizing in the way you teach and lead is not. Yeah, it's sort of learning through the midst of the struggle and the pain and learning to be developed as a person rather than Straight recitation of facts, numbers, or figures. And that's takes more time. I know that that may not be the easiest path or the path of least resistance. But that's also probably the path that's more beneficial in the long run for the student. Mm-hmm. Even if it does take more time, on your end, or, etc, etc. Yeah, or you were trying to figure it out? Yeah. Well, tell me a little bit about it. I know that there are and you've touched on some of the beautiful aspects of like education, education is done right, sort of your aims and goals. And you mentioned you kind of hinted at this, but what are some of the sort of fizzles and thorns difficulties about the work that you do in the education space? And how are you guys trying to maybe do things differently or push back against some of that that darkness in what you do?
Andrew McGregor
Yeah. That's a great question. I work at a small charter that's been around for 11 years now or season 11. And we started as like a small startup, and almost felt like a small startup. And now we're feeling a lot more corporate because we've gotten bigger. And in that when you think thorns and thistles I almost think like, I think the corporation, which sounds kind of strange, but it's like the institution of education itself. And really like the larger organization, and how as we've become bigger, there has just been more bureaucracy put in place. And because of that, there have been systems that have been developed. Maybe it's just a function of the larger system, but it gives the illusion that there's not As much trust in the organization and because of that teachers maybe haven't felt as trusted. And decisions have maybe not been done in a thoughtful way because it's had to go through different layers. And in a lot of ways, it's forced, I think the leadership to compromise on what they feel like sometimes is right for the sake of being politically correct as an organization, or what this looks like to the outside community. I know I'm kind of being a bit vague here, but even dealing with like, parents, who might want to get involve lawyers, and things like lawsuits and oh, this and that, and then our school, changing things just not to get sued. Whereas in the olden days in the wild west, we would just do what we were right for kids. And, and that seemed to actually be really noble and good. And now we're just so big that we can't afford to do that. Sounds I don't know. I mean, it's kind of a weird way to answer that question. But I work with such a great organization, like our school is really, as a really strong culture. What's really affected our culture is the larger organization and the threats. We've come in from the outside. Our leadership has had to kind of step in, kind of protect us from a lot of that.
Gage Arnold
Yeah, I can certainly understand that. And yeah, I think that it makes sense that as you guys scale that there are costs and consequences with that to some degree. Yeah, and learning how to continue. Yeah, sort of pushing forward flourishing and some of these aspects even in the midst of the challenges that kind of bureaucracy and systems thinking kind of bring is an understandable challenge to especially to try and keep students at the forefront.
Andrew McGregor
Yeah, the other thing that comes to mind that might be more relevant. I, I see it as you know, every year is though we have a really strong staff culture. It's easy as a teacher, and I think this comes in any profession, but as a teacher, it's easy to get your like, take your identity from your work, but specifically how students view you as an educator. So you're always going to have students that maybe aren't as grateful as you would expect for the time you're putting in. Like there's not a spirit of gratitude there. You don't feel celebrated. And you know, I've been in it for 13 years and it comes and goes, but I it makes me think of my team and and and Teachers getting their value from students. And that really hurting them year after year because students come and go. And at the end of the day, it's like, we can't, though work is meaningful, we can't get all of our value from it. Because students are going to disappoint us, you know, or there or not going to maybe get students where we want every year. And at the end of the day, students leave they graduate. Yeah, yeah. And we want them to leave. But there are so many people that go into education because they want to give back and they want to, like save kids. And I kind of got caught in that trap early on my first couple years. It's like, I'm doing this to like, you know, like, save these kids and give them the future. But if you go into work like that, every day, you're gonna end up wanting and being disappointed, because, at the end of the day, we're just like, what Little relationship and the grand scheme of life and students are going to come and go so there's a danger I think a human danger in just finding too much value in being a teacher and quote making a difference. And, and that should not drive what we're doing if that makes sense.
Gage Arnold
Yeah, it's like trying to plug your umbilical cord in and say I need you to provide the acceptance and I don't know success or whatever it may be. you're seeking you're trying to Yeah, get that from your students. And in reality, I guess if you broke it down for them, of course, they wouldn't probably want that or say that they would want their students to do well they would want them to grow up and graduate and succeed and yet the corded man cut the cord. It's time right and being able to have a yeah to see it. And it's the right good and right place which is Serve the work that you've been placed at. But you, you can't fall into the sort of overworking mindset that I guess so much of culture can fall into which is trying to make what we do. And the impact that we make in the world our ultimate sort of source of meaning and satisfaction and that's hard that's a hard thing.
Andrew McGregor
Yeah. It makes me think of that movie Stand and Deliver. Did you ever see that calculus teacher nice, Pele? And then there's the more modern one of the teachers in Long Beach came out like 10 years ago, but both of them devote everything to their students. And they're amazing teachers and they make a huge difference. But even at that, in both of those stories, there's a cost like the family, their family at home is falling apart or the marriage falls apart. There's a difference between trying to do your work well and wanting to make a difference.
Gage Arnold
As well said, and certainly provides an opportunity for Christians to be able to model what healthy limits look like. Yeah, as people who lean into things like Sabbath rest, and, you know, avoiding the pitfall of overwork, that's a way to be countercultural is to even sort of reframing where your ultimate identity and meaning is coming from. And again, it's hard, especially in a cultural moment that values and kind of glorifies leaning in and sort of putting in the extra hours or being perceived as successful in the workspace. So it's Yeah, I think it's it's a huge Thorn and I think one that regardless of whatever you're even if you're not an educator, I think that's something we all feel and what we do on a day to day basis. Andrew, I want to be sensitive to your time just as we Can only in the plane a little bit. So I'll give you just a well, it's a big question, but I give it to you and then I'll let you kind of figure out a way to maneuver through it. But I've been thinking a lot about how we can best love our neighbor through the day to day work that we do. So. Our vocation can be the avenue by which we sort of live out Jesus's command of loving our neighbors ourselves. And so, I guess how do you see yourself? How would you put that in your own words? How are you loving your neighbor through your work?
Andrew McGregor
That's a good question. Um, as an educator, I see my neighbor not as my students, but as my co-workers. You know, because that's really those are the people that not that I don't love my students. and care for them. But it's different when you're working with staff for years, you know, years on end. And in a lot of ways, our staff has had a low turnover. So we're like all like roommates now. And when you're like roommates, you just, you aren't as intentional, right? Kind of, like even convicting for you to ask me that because I probably have the best answer. Especially in the day of a teacher where I think oftentimes we feel like we're running. It's funny, my goal for this year is actually to be more present with staff. And, and what I mean by that is like, when I have a prep period, instead of just, you know, grading or giving feedback, maybe going and sitting in an in Frank's room or in a room and watching him teach for five minutes, even if I'm not interacting with them. So I think part of its pushing in and spending time And when we have relationships that have extended over time we end up kind of getting into our own social groups. Thanks so much. Thanks, Shawn. Okay, that was my neighbor. Ah, thanks. Good. Bye-bye.
Gage Arnold
Yeah, it sounds like a card. Yeah. Well, you're describing I think it is beautiful. It's the Ministry of presence that you can offer to, like your neighbors, either profit like your actual neighbors or just those who are placed throughout your life in your day. Yeah, sure, coworkers. And that's a pretty powerful thing is to be able to Yeah, to lean in where God has placed you, wherever that maybe today, that's a coffee shop or the office or packing boxes on an assembly line. wherever it may be. That's where the maker has you then get the joy of getting in there.
Andrew McGregor
Yeah, yeah. And the other thing I was thinking, too, that I've been thinking a lot more about this last year is the idea of being, it's more important sometimes to be kind than the right. Especially on a bath with a bunch of strong convictions, I included, and learning how to like, maybe compromise on some things for the benefit of the team to show that I care about the person more than I do the decision. And I think, kind of going forward year after year, it's just trying to keep a spirit of gratitude. Because we live in a very cynical culture and education is with a bunch of teachers it can become very cynical very fast. How do you I continue to be grateful in a culture like that, but not come across as pious enough to empathize but promotes gratitude and students celebration and things like that. Those are things I'm thinking about and working through that. Different ways to hopefully love my neighbor.
Gage Arnold
Welcome back. We hope you enjoyed our conversation with Andrew, we hope you'll stick around with us for our upcoming reflections on faith and work. If you haven't already, again, please subscribe, download and rate this podcast and spread the word to others on social media. Guys, it really, really, really does make a difference and it helps us out a ton when you do those things. So we'd be very grateful and then cool if you joined us and helping spread the word. Again, this Podcast is a production In the Center for Faith in Work, Los Angeles gospel-centered nonprofit that's dedicated to helping Angelenos reimagine their vocations to reshape culture, in Los Angeles and beyond. If you'd like to take the conversation a little further, you can feel free to visit our website at faithandworkla.com to find resources, videos, blogs, anything you could want to help you reimagine your own work with the gospel in mind. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.